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Adpihi (and later, Reptigan)

 
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chiarizio
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Adpihi (and later, Reptigan) Reply with quote

Adpihi divide a circle into 144 "Adpihi degrees"; each such degree is divided into 144 "Adpihi minutes". So there are 20736 "Adpihi minutes" in a full circle.

Each "Adpihi minute" of latitude, and, on the equator, each "Adpihi minute" of longitude, is an "Adpihi nautical mile", or "Adpihi kilometer".
Since twelve gross (=1728 in our notation) is the Adpihi "equivalent" of our "thousand" -- it's the cube of their base -- it makes sense for each "Adpihi mile" to be divided into twelve gross "Adpihi yards" (our statute mile is 1760 of our yards), or each "Adpihi kilometer" to be divided into twelve gross "Adpihi meters".

1 Adpihi mile/kilometer is about:
1.041667 of our nautical miles
1.205633 of our statute miles
1.929012 of our kilometers

1 Adpihi yard/meter is about:
1.227959 of our yards
1.116327 of our meters

_____________________________________________________________

Although almost everything in Adpihi is in base-twelve (dozenal), the number of "Adpihi hours" in a day (a nycthemeron, a day-night cycle, sunrise to sunrise or sunset to sunset or midnight to midnight or noon to noon) is sixteen (or "four and a dozen"). So an "Adpihi hour" is (almost?) exactly 1.5 of our hours.

So, an "Adpihi mile per hour" is about:
0.694444 of our knots or
0.803755 of our miles-per-hour or
1.286008 of our kilometers-per-hour.

_____________________________________________________________

For the time being, use the digits 0-9 and the letters T and E for a base-and-place notation of Adpihi counting-numbers; T for our ten and E for our eleven.

Reptigan roads (and very late Adpihi roads) have speed limits of:
16 Adpihi miles-per-hour (14.46759 mph, 23.14815 kph)
36 Adpihi miles-per-hour (33.75772 mph, 54.01235 kph)
56 Adpihi miles-per-hour (53.04784 mph, 84.87654 kph)
76 Adpihi miles-per-hour (72.33796 mph, 115.74074 kph)
96 Adpihi miles-per-hour (91.62809 mph, 146.60494 kph)
E6 Adpihi miles-per-hour (110.91821 mph, 177.46914 kph)
(Numbers in blue are in base twelve. Numbers in black are in decimal.)

The 16 Amph and 36 Amph roads* are available to non-motor vehicles (such as bicycles and rikshas and horse-drawn or ox-drawn vehicle) and to horses and to pedestrians.
Motor vehicles are required to be especially careful on the 16 Amph roads, and yield to non-motor traffic.
*[edit]On second thought the 36 Amph roads may be unsafe for non-motor vehicles and horses and pedestrians and so on. (12/30/15)[\edit]
The 56 Amph roads are not available to pedestrians or horses or non-motor vehicles; but they are available to open motor vehicles such as motorcycles.
The 76 Amph roads are not available to open vehicles, nor to non-motor vehicles.

On all roads, all vehicles must be inspected and licensed and insured, and all drivers must be tested and licensed and insured. But on 96 Amph roads and E6 Amph roads tougher inspection, tougher testing, and greater insurance are required, and licensing is more stringent.
96 Amph roads are available only to government vehicles driven by government personnel (this includes governments of any level; local (township/county) or state/country or world; provided the vehicles and drivers are inspected, tested, licensed, and insured), and to high-occupancy vehicles (such as omnibuses).
E6 Amph roads are available only to emergency vehicles such as police and ambulance and fire and rescue, operating for some government, and to military vehicles.

_____________________________________________________________

A trained soldier can march at a sustained pace of about 3.6 mph, or about 4 and a half Amph;
especially if s/he marches only on alternate days, and only on alternate hours on those days, and doesn't march at night, nor in the first hour of the morning, nor the last hour of the evening.
More commonly, an unburdened person in good shape can walk at a sustained pace of about 2.4 mph or about 3 Amph, with shorter and less but more frequent rest-breaks than the soldier above, and not for as long as the soldier.
_____________________________________________________________

Since this is a WIP conworld, all of the stuff in this thread is subject to change, unless and until I say otherwise.
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Last edited by chiarizio on Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:01 am; edited 5 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unrelated to that post:

I recently became interested in setting up an ecosystem and species and culture on a planet orbiting an "orange dwarf" star (of spectral class K) on the main-sequence (having luminosity class V; I suspect the "V" is the Roman numeral five, not the 22nd letter of the alphabet.)

I also became interested in setting up the ecosystem and the species and the culture on a planet that was between twice and three times the mass of Earth.

I'm kind of not-necessarily-irretrievably locked-in to the idea that Adpihi's sun is spectral class G, like Sol, and that the planet Adpihi has a mass at most undetectably different from that of Earth.

But I do have another intelligent biological species; the "space centipedes".

I have (provisionally) decided to make their "home" planet, or at least their species's planet-of-origin be the world above; orbiting a KV "orange dwarf" star, and having a planetary mass between twice and thrice the Earth's.

(If I have a qualm, it's that I'm not sure having a home planet more massive than Earth, could actually lead even a triphibious species with an airborne phase, to become "space centipedes". Maybe it would be more believable if their home planet were less massive than Earth, instead of more massive. But for now, I go on.)

In Reptigan times, the humans of Adpihi will have met the space centipedes, and after a political struggle the various species will be considered equal citizens of Reptigan (in later Reptigan, anyway).

I'm thinking the expansion of both human and space-centipede colonies can be speeded up by their co-operation.

I think the humans will be most comfortable on planets between 0.9 and 1.1 Earth masses, while the space-centipedes will be most comfortable on planets between 1.8 and 3.3 Earth-masses.

Maybe they'll agree that whenever the humans discover an otherwise-habitable planet that masses more than 1.5 Earth-masses, they'll turn it over to the space-centipedes; and whenever the space-centipedes discover an otherwise-habitable planet that masses less than 1.5 Earth-masses, they'll turn it over to the humans.

But either species will welcome those members of the other species who can actually stand to live on the planet.

What does anyone think?
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Last edited by chiarizio on Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About how close blood-kin can still be marriageable in Adpihi and Reptigan.

In (later) Reptigan:

No-one can marry any of their own descendants, nor any descendant of either of their parents, nor any descendant of any of their grandparents.

Also, no-one can marry any of their own ancestors, nor any child of any of their ancestors, nor any grandchild of any of their ancestors.

And, no-one can marry anyone with whom they share more than one great-grandparent.

So, one can marry one's half-second-cousin; or one's second-cousin-once-removed (that is, one's second-cousin's child, or one's parent's second-cousin); but one cannot marry one's full-second-cousin.

___________________________________________________________

In later Adpihi and earlier Reptigan:

Everyone still inherits three "family names";
one such name is inherited always from one's mother (a "matriclan" name);
one such name is inherited always from one's father (a "patriclan" name);
and one such name is inherited always from one's parent of the opposite sex (like the Mundugumor rope)*.

*The "rope" has been reported in only one natculture (namely the Mundugumor), and as far as I know by only one anthropologist (Margaret Mead).
Many other anthropologists have expressed strong doubt that she reported correctly.
Those who backed up their complaints by independent field-work deserve to be listened to.
Probably, also, those who backed up their objections by data from Mead's own fieldwork.

But in my opinion those who objected just because it sounded ridiculous were being "armchair anthropologists", and those particular complaints should be ignored.
Anyway, feel free to assume the Adpihi "rope" or "alterclan" or whatever it should be named, is purely fictional.

In the oldest and earliest Adpihi the rule was one could not marry another if either of the other's parents belonged to any of the "family name" groups that one belonged to oneself; and one could not marry another if the other belonged to any of these groups that either of one's own parents belonged to.
(However the two fathers could belong to the same matriclan; the two mothers could belong to the same patriclan; and the bride's mother and the groom's father could belong to the same alterclan.)
When there were only three patriclans, only three matriclans, and only three alterclans, this led to a "prescriptive marriage system".

In late Adpihi and early Reptigan, the requirements are in one way looser (because there are 143 matriclans, 143 patriclans, and 143 alterclans); but in another way they are more strict (no grandparent of either party can share a family-name or clan-name with any grandparent of the other party).
This is not a prescriptive marriage system.

The closest blood-kin who can marry each other could be quadruple fourth-cousins.

If each of the bride's parents is a third-cousin to each of the groom's parents, then, depending on the details of those relationships, the two might be allowed to marry.

If each of each party's grandmothers is second-cousin to one of the other party's grandfathers, and each of each party's grandfathers is second-cousin to one of the other party's grandmothers, then, depending on the details of those relationships, the two might be allowed to marry.

If each of each party's grandmothers' mother is cross-cousin** to one of the other party's grandfathers' father, and each of each party's grandfathers' father is cross-cousin** to one of the other party's grandmothers' mother, then, depending on the details of those relationships, the two might be allowed to marry.

If each of each party's grandmothers' maternal grandfather is a brother of one of the other party's grandfathers' paternal grandmother, and each of each party's grandfathers' paternal grandmother is a sister of one of the other party's grandmothers' maternal grandfather, then if there's no other relationship, they would be allowed to marry.

**EGO and ALTER are cross-cousin if EGO's father and ALTER's mother are brother and sister, or if EGO's mother and ALTER's father are sister and brother. If their mothers are sisters, or their fathers are brothers, they are parallel-cousins.


___________________________________________________________

In later Reptigan, laws concerning how close blood-kindred may marry each other, are relaxed somewhat; but there are also laws in Reptigan prohibiting marriage to certain of one's "relatives-in-law" or "step-relatives".

So, again, in some respects later Reptigan is more relaxed than earlier Reptigan, and in some respects later Reptigan is more strict than earlier Reptigan.
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chiarizio
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Class exogamy Reply with quote

I’m thinking part of my conworlds’ attempts to slow the growth of economic inequality, might be “class exogamy” —— an additional rule about marriage.

So far, my first approximation is this;
People in the richest half of the population must choose their spouses from the poorest half; people from the poorest half of the population must choose their spouses from the richest half.
(Possibly, also, people from the middle third must choose their spouses from one of the other thirds?)

Also, a person’s second spouse must be from a different economic quartile of the population than their first spouse.

———

I have not yet worked out whether this is possible, or stable, or would have unwanted side-effects. (That is, side-effects I don’t want in my Conworlds.)

It may be necessary to use the spouses’ parents’ classes, rather than the spouses’ own classes —— for an instance of a possible technical complication to feasibility.

How could I make it apply equally to both brides and grooms? I don’t want to have to apply it to just one sex.
If I have to use the maiden-or-bachelor’s parents’ economic class, rather than the younger betrothed’s own class, can I use both their parents’ classes? If so how? I’d want it to be something even-handed. It wouldn’t be a problem in cases where both their parents belong to the same class; but how safe would it be to just assume that would probably be so?

I’m thinking that a person seeking a second spouse will usually have their own class, and not be dependent on one or both of their parents. But in my Conworlds, one is usually (and ideally) one’s first spouse’s second spouse, and one’s second spouse’s first spouse. So normally if one of the betrothed couple is too new to economic independence to have a clearly established class, the other one does have a credit rating or FICO score or whatever my conworlds’ equivalent is.
But because premature death does happen, and divorce does happen, and so on, what’s ideal and usual and normal may sometimes not be what’s actual. So I’ll need to figure out what to do in those cases.

———

I expect I could use some help, if anyone thinks they can give me help. I imagine I could probably eventually work it out myself, given unlimited time to do so. But I might be wrong; I still don’t have my conlangs’ neography worked out or even well-begun, and I didn’t expect to be so stuck for so long. This might be like that, though I hope not.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just found out that Nigeria has an RL polygynandrous culture in which restrictions exist on the blood relationships allowed or preferred between a new spouse and an earlier spouse, and between a new spouse and a step-parent or a parent’s earlier spouse.

I’m wondering whether and how to work something like that into Adpihi or Reptigan.

https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1525/aa.1973.75.5.02a00230

I started a new thread about it in “World and Culture”.
http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?t=1538&highlight=

The naive approach would be to say, in late Adpihi and early and mid Reptigan, you cannot marry anyone if any of their grandparents or step-grandparents or grandparents-in-law belong to any of the same groups as any of your grandparents or step-grandparents or grandparents-in-law.

This could get really restrictive if “step-grandparents” were taken to include not only a step-parent’s parents and a parent’s step-parents, but also a step-parent’s step-parents. It could also get quite constraining if it extended to step-grandparents-in-law.

A less restrictive, somewhat less naive, interpretation, might be;
None of your grandparents can belong to any of the same groups as any of their grandparents, any of their parents’ step-parents, any of their step-parents’ parents, or any of their spouses’ grandparents.
Likewise none of their grandparents can belong to any of the same groups as any of your grandparents, any of your parents’ step-parents, any of your step-parents’ parents, or any of your spouses’ grandparents.

I can work it out.

Maybe the restrictions that apply should contain at most two mentions of “grand-“ or “step-“ or “-in-law”.

Or something.

______________________________________________________________

For instance:

Neither of the groom’s parents can belong to any of the same groups as any of the bride’s parents, grandparents, step-parents, parents-in-law, step-grandparents, grandparents-in-law, or step-parents-in-law.

None of the groom’s parents, grandparents, step-parents, or parents-in-law, can belong to any of the same groups as any of the bride’s parents, grandparents, step-parents, or parents-in-law.

None of the groom’s parents, grandparents, step-parents, parents-in-law, step-grandparents, grandparents-in-law, or step-parents-in-law, can belong to any of the same groups either of the bride’s parents belong to.

-—————–

Another possible formulation..

For the nonce define a first-degree-relative as a father or mother or brother or sister or husband or wife or son or daughter.
Define a second-degree-relative as a first-degree relative of a first-degree relative.
Define a third-degree relative as a 1st degree relative of a 2nd degree relative; equivalently, as a 2nd-degree relative of a 1st-degree relative.

Say you can’t marry someone if you or any of your 1st- or 2nd- degree relatives share any groups with them or any of their 1st- or 2nd- -degree relatives;
nor if you or any of your 1st-degree relatives share any groups with them or any of their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree relatives;
nor if you or any of your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree relatives share any groups with them or any of their 1st-degree relatives.

I’m pretty sure that’s awful damn restrictive. It might be unworkable with only 143 groups of each type. And the more married siblings one has, and the more stepparents one has, the harder it will be to make a match.

OTOH it might limit a population explosion simply by making it impossible for younger children (such as 3rd sons or 3rd daughters or 4th children) to marry.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also
http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=21334&highlight=#21334 , and
http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=21353#21353 , and
http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=21352#21352.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A somewhat less restrictive proscription, that might fit Adpihi/Reptigan better.

EGO’s first and second spouse(s) must not belong to any of the same groups that EGO, or any of EGO‘s first-degree relatives belongs to. Equivalently, if EGO belongs to any of the same groups that ALTER, or any of ALTER’s first-degree relatives belong to, then EGO cannot marry ALTER for a first or second spouse.

Additionally, if the proposed marriage is the second or later marriage for either or both of them, as well as being the first or second marriage for either or both of them; neither of them can belong to any of the same groups that one of the other’s spouses belongs to.

If however the proposed marriage is the third or fourth marriage for each of them, they are allowed to be a bit more closely related. Neither is allowed to be a member of any of the same groups the other, or any of the other’s spouses, belong to.

I guess things just get messy when one of them is marrying for the fifth or sixth time. More than six weddings per customer is discouraged.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kinds of exogamy proposed for Adpihi/Reptigan so far, include:
Lineal-kinship-group exogamy
Geographic exogamy (residences or birthplaces)
Economic-class exogamy
Occupational exogamy
Linguistic exogamy
Religious exogamy

TTBOMM that list is complete. But maybe I’ve forgotten something.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the point of proscribing marriage between people whose recent ancestors share named descent groups, is to prevent marriages between full second cousins, that can be done by prohibiting marriage between couples if a grandparent of either of them shares any lineage with either parent of the other.
We could permit either grandfather of the groom to share the same matriclan with either grandfather of the bride.
And/or, we could permit either grandmother of the groom to share the same patriclan with either grandmother of the bride.
And/or, we could permit the groom’s father’s father, or the groom’s mother’s mother, to share the same geun or “rope”, with the bride’s FF or MM.

In fact, the eight grandparents might count only six matriclans, six patriclans, and six “ropes” between them, and still not have any two of them be siblings.

This is a bit more permissive than requiring no grandparent of either spouse to share any group with any grandparent of the other party.

——

OTOH. With just a few more lineal descent groups of each type, we can be slightly stricter (than I’ve been saying before today), and still allow more than half the otherwise-eligible people one meets, to be marriageable in so far as line-membership is concerned.

We could require, not only that no grandparent of either spouse share a group with any grandparent of the other; but also, require that neither spouse share any group with any great-grandparent of the other spouse.

If there were at least 162 (instead of only 143) lineages of each type, a randomly chosen other member of the society, stands slightly more than a 50% chance of not being too closely related, by the above (stricter) criterion.

———

This would add another 3*19=57 names to the 7*143=1001 anthroponyms I’ve been saying Adpihi & Reptigan have.

—————

162 is still small compared to 143, IMO; and 57 additional names is also smallish, I think.
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Last edited by chiarizio on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?t=1533&highlight=
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Daryush’s questionnaire: answers for my conworlds Reply with quote

daryush wrote:
Here is a basic list of questions, by no means complete, that should help any conworlders fill gaps in their culture. If you think of any others, please add them.

History
    * When was this civilisation started?
    * By whom was it started?
    * What were the main powers in the time when it started?
    * If it originated in a different area, how did it get here?
    * What are the major events in this civilisations past?
    * Who are the main people in this civilisation's past?
    * What are modern attitudes to ancient and past cultures in the area?
    * How strongly are the modern people connected to their heritage?


Ethnicities
    * What are the major ethnic groups in the area?
    * How are they distributed?
    * How do their differ (language, appearance, ancestry)?
    * What jobs do the main ethnicities primarily occupy?
    * What are modern attitudes of the native peoples to immigrants and other ethnicities?
    * How has a variety of ethnicities changed the culture of the people and area?


Geography
    * What are the major geographic features?
    * What importance do they hold for the people?
    * How do people feel about the landscape being used for, eg: industry?
    * What are the major natural resources? How has this influenced the growth of the area (thanks to HandsomeRob)
    * What animals and plants are there (thanks to Nuntar). What to people think of them? Are any of them significant in any way? How / Why / Why not?


Education
    * Is education compulsory / offered to everyone?
    * Between which ages does education happen?
    * How are year groups and academic years arranged?
    * What subjects can be taught and at which levels?
    * What qualifications are availible for people?
    * What do schools / colleges / universities look like?
    * How many pupils and staff does the average school have?
    * What percentage of students take which subects?
    * What are the classrooms like?
    * How are the different subjects taught?
    * Who is in charge of education in the country, and in each individual school?
    * Is school uniform worn?
    * What are the options after school?
    * How much does education cost (if it is not free)?
    * Is external tuition and courses availible for a certain subject / topic / career path?
    * If so, where are they mostly held?
    * If so, who usually holds them?
    * How many people attend?
    * What usually happens on them?
    * What are people's attitudes to the education system? (this may vary from ethnicity to ethnicity)


Work
    * What are usual working hours?
    * How does this differ between different jobs?
    * How many people are employed in each sector?
    * Within each sector, how many people are employed in each job?
    * For each job, how much does each rank of worker earn?
    * Where are the largest concentrations of a certain job type?
    * What happens in each job? In each departement?
    * What sort of equipment is availible?
    * How does work affect lifestyle and health?
    * What sort of jobs are preferred by which people?
    * What are the guidelines and protocols for each job?
    * What are peoples attitudes to the current system?


Health and Lifestyle
    * What is the average life expectancy? How does this differ between different areas / ethnicities / etc?
    * How much free time do people usually get?
    * What do they spend this time doing?
    * Do people have access to clean drinking water? Why / why not?
    * Do people use proper sanitation at home and at work? Why / why not?
    * Do people have access to any form of medical help, for both emergency problems and for less urgent problems?
    * What procedures can be undertaken for a person which what type of problem (in comparison to UK / USA / wherever you are)?
    * How much does health cost?
    * How much does clean water cost?
    * How often do people see their doctor / dentist / other healthcare providers?


Food
    * What type of food is most popular? How does this differ between communities?
    * What type of food is the area famous for?
    * What cutlery (if any) do people use?
    * How is the table arranged?
    * How do people sit when eating?
    * How many and when are the main mealtimes?
    * How many restaurants are there in certain cities?
    * Does fast food exist? What are people's attitudes to it?
    * Is there significant risk of food poisoning? How many cases lead to death?
    * How much does food usually cost?


Fashion
    * What kind of clothes do people wear? How does this vary?
    * How much does clothing cost?
    * Are there any designer brands? If so, what are they?
    * Are sweatshops used to produce the clothes?
    * What are people's attitudes to these?
    * How important is fashion to people? How does this vary?


Religion
    * Are the people religious?
    * What are the major religions in the area?
    * How are different religious groups distributed?
    * What are some of the core beliefs and practices of a certain group?
    * Is religion a cause of tensions between certain peoples?


Politics
    * Is the country secular?
    * What are some of the most important unique policies?
    * What is the political status of a certain community?
    * How is government chosen?
    * Are there any current tensions / wars / embargoes etc with any other nations?
    * What are the people's opinion of the current system?
    * What is the country's foreign policy?


If I've missed any out, feel free to add to the list!

EDIT 1: Just realised I missed some stuff off:

Technology and Science (Thanks to Nuntar for pointing this out)
    * What inventions are availible for people?
    * How many of these are taken for granted and how many are appreciated?
    * What are the names of some famous scientists? What are they famous for?
    * What are people's attitudes to these peoples and their discoveries / inventions?
    * How do people get from A to B? Does this vary at all?
    * What happens on long journeys? Do people make long journeys?
    * Can people do X? If not, what do they envisage X will be like?
    * How is knowledge distributed? Is it kept unknown to the common people, or is availible for all?


Society
    * Is your society segregated? How? Why / why not?
    * What do people think about this?
    * Are there social classes? Why / why not?
    * If so, what do people think of them? Can people switch classes? Are there any benefits to being of one class over another?
    * If not, what do people think it would be like?
    * Is there any discrimination in your consociety?
    * Are there separate trends and groups that tend to dominate? What are they like?
    * How independant are people?
    * How big are families?
    * How many people live in one household? How many generations?
    * Are girls or boys preferred? Why?
    * What are the stereotypical roles of women / men? What do people think of these?
    * How rife is domestic violence?
    * If it exists, are there societies set up to help wipe it out? Why / why not?
    * Does the government play a big part in people's lives?
    * Does religion play a big part in people's lives?
    * What do people think of this?


Military
    * Does your concountry have an army / navy / etc?
    * How are battles fought?
    * How is it (the army) organised?
    * What is the pay like?
    * How many does it number?
    * What weapons are used?
    * How long do wars usually last?
    * Have there been any civil wars / revolutions / coups lately? Why / why not?
    * What do people think of this?
    * Have you invaded another country / been invaded? Why / why not?
    * What do people think of this?
    * Who are "the enemy?" Why?
    * How does your army compare to others in the conworld?
    * How has geographic location / resources / population influenced the armed forces?
    * Is there a navy / air force?
    * If so, how do battles at sea / in the air differ to battles on land?
    * What aid can be given to injured combatants?
    * How do soldiers live on campaign?
    * Are there any moral codes / laws which soldiers have to abide by?
    * What defenses are availible to a city?
    * What do people think of all this?


Art and Entertainment (Thanks to Chevron)
    * What is art like in your culture?
    * What style is it mostly done it?
    * What style is most popular?
    * What materials are used?
    * Do people enjoy looking at art? Does this vary among communities?
    * Do people enjoy doing art? Does this vary?
    * Is there any calligraphy? Who does it?
    * Does your culture have a distinct (or not so) musical style? What is it like?
    * Who are some big names in music? What are they famous for?
    * How do people listen to music?
    * Does music influence people's behaviour?
    * Does your culture have dance? What are they like?
    * Who goes to see them? What do they think of them?
    * Does your culture have drama / cinema / TV?
    * Who uses it? What do they think of it?
    * What other major forms of entertainment are there?
    * How often to people use this?
    * What do people think of it?
    * Do people read?
    * If so, what do they read? How does this vary?
    * How much do books / magazines / etc cost?
    * Is there a public library system? Who uses it?
    * Who are popular authors / poets / etc? What for? How does this vary?
    * Who are some of the more famous characters from your conworld's literature? What for?
    * How has all this changed over time?


Transportation and communication (thanks to Leech)
    * How to people get around? What are the major types of transport?
    * How much does it cost individually?
    * Is there a public transport system?
    * Who uses it?
    * How much does it cost?
    * What are roads like (if you have them)? How do they vary?
    * What is car / horse / camel / etc ownership like? How does it vary? Does it have any significance?
    * How safe is transport? How does this vary?
    * How clean is transport?
    * What major fuels are used?
    * What are people's attitudes to transport?
    * How do people communicate with each other when they are not with each other?
    * Do you have a postal service? How fast is it? How much does it cost? What can and can't be delivered? Does it operate internationally
    * Do you have internet / IM / telephone? How much do they cost? Who uses it? What about e-mail? Anything else?
    * If you do have an IM service, what else other than talking does it allow?


Money
    * What is your currency? How is it subdivided?
    * How does it compare to modern USD? What about with currencies of neighbouring countries?
    * How has the value of the currency changed recently?
    * How are coins / notes / etc produced?
    * How is wealth distributed?
    * Is there a public banking system?
    * Who uses it? What benefits does it bring? At what cost? How does this vary?
    * How do rich people behave compared with poor people?
    * Is there a big gap btw. the rich and poor? How do people react to this?
    * What are your people's idea of "poverty".
    * What do people think of the current economic situation?


Architecture (Thanks to Lankylars)
    * What major architectural styles are present? What are they like?
    * How does this vary over time and between places?
    * What major elements are present? How are they pieced together?
    * What are houses like? Do they have heating / water / etc? Does this vary?
    * What are palaces / castles like?
    * What are X like?
    * How tall is the tallest building?
    * What materials are used? Do any have to be imported?
    * How are things built? Do you have machines or is it done by hand?
    * What are some famous landmarks? Why are they famous? Are they famous internationally?
    * What do people think of the architecture?

_________________
"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission
-----------------------------
I am also eldin raigmore.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject: Individual names among Adpihi and Reptigan humans. Reply with quote

See

http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=18301&highlight=name+names+naming#183q

Everyone has five names.
The first three are clan or family or line names.
The first is their matriclan or matriline name; it’s the same as their mother’s.
The second is their patriclan or patriline name; it’s the same as their father’s.
The third is their alterclan or geun or rope name; it’s inherited from the parent of the opposite sex.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

The other two names are personal, individual names. The idea is that no too-close relative —— e.g. no member of the same nuclear family —— will have the same combination of individual personal names.

Men’s first individual names are given by their fathers, and men’s second individual names are given by their mothers.
Women’s first individual names are given by their mothers, and women’s second individual names are given by their fathers.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

As for the first individual names of a man’s sons:
A man names his first four sons after the first individual names of the man’s great-grandfathers, and names the next four after his granduncles if possible.
His first son he names after his own FFF (father’s father’s father);
his second son he names after his own MFF (mother’s father’s father);
his third son he names after his own FMF;
his fourth son he names after his own MMF.
His 5th son he names after his own FF’s oldest (full or half, agnate or uterine) brother;
his 6th son after his own MF’s oldest brother;
his 7th son after his own FM’s oldest brother;
his 8th son after his own MM’s oldest brother.
His 9th son he names after his own FF’s 2nd-oldest brother;
and so on, his 10th and 11th and 12th sons after the 2nd-oldest brothers of his MF, his FM, and his MM.
His 13th thru 16th sons he’ll name after the 3rd-oldest brothers of his grandparents, in an order similar to the above.

He’ll always be careful not to name any two sons the same name as each other, or as himself or any of his (full or half, agnate or uterine) brothers, or his father or any of his uncles, or either of his grandfathers. If that means he has to skip a name and go on to the next in rotation, that’s what he’ll do. Likewise, he’ll go on to the next older male relative in the sequence, if the specified relative never existed.

I’m currently thinking it will be quite unusual, even in early and middle Adpihi, for a person to have more than seven children; and more unusual yet to have more than seven sons. Every man has four great-grandfathers, and, chances are probably at least around 33 to one, no two of them have the same first individual name. A man probably has 15 chances out of 16 of having at least one granduncle; at least 11 chances out of 16 of having at least two granduncles; and at least five chances out of 16 of having at least three granduncles. So, unless their (1st individual) names have a lot of duplicates, he’s not going to run out of names by his sixth son, and has a good (almost one out of three) chance of still being able to name his seventh son after one of his own granduncles.

Unusual circumstances are possible. Maybe all eight of his great grandparents, all four of his grandparents, and both of his parents, had only one child each. But he marries three times and has seven children by each wife, only one of the 21 kids being a daughter. Then he has pre-selected (1st individual) names for only the first four of his 20 sons, and will have to come up with some other rationale for choosing (1st individual) names for the other 16.

Note that a man’s 👨 oldest son’s oldest son’s oldest son’s oldest son, will have the same first individual name, that the man 👨 himself has.
IOW a line of fathers-and-oldest-sons will rotate through a cycle of four 1st individual names, repeating every fourth generation.
If a man is his father’s oldest son, then the 👨 man’s oldest son’s oldest son’s oldest son (one of the man’s great grandsons), will have the same first individual name that the man’s father had.
If a man is his father’s oldest son, and his father was his (the man’s) 👴 grandfather’s oldest son, then the man’s oldest son’s oldest son (one of the man’s grandsons), will have the same first individual name, that the man’s FF (paternal grandfather) had.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

As for the second individual names of a woman’s sons:
A woman names her first two sons after the second individual names of her own grandfathers, and names her later sons after the second individual names of her uncles, if possible.
She gives her oldest son the same 2nd individual name her MF (mother’s father) has (or had);
she gives her 2nd son the same 2nd individual name her FF (father’s father) has or had;
names her 3rd son after her mother’s oldest (full or half, agnate or uterine) brother;
names her 4th son after her father’s oldest brother;
names her 5th son after her mother’s 2nd-oldest brother;
names her 6th son after her father’s 2nd-oldest brother;
names her 7th son after her mother’s 3rd-oldest brother;
and so on.

She’s careful not to give any two of her sons the same 2nd individual name, nor to give any of her sons the same 2nd individual name as her father or as any of her (full or half, agnate or uterine) brothers. If she has to skip a designated older male relative because she’s already used his name, or because no such relative ever existed, she’ll go on to the name of the next relative in the sequence.

In late Adpihi, and especially in Reptigan, it should (I’m thinking) be unusual to have more than three children, let alone more than three sons. Every woman has (or had) two grandfathers, and probably at least around half of them have at least one uncle as well. So, barring duplication, a mother won’t run out of 2nd individual names for her sons before the third son, and (probably, if my thinking is correct) has at least about a 50% chance of being able to name her third son after her uncle, as well.
But, in early Adpihi, and perhaps to a lesser degree in middle Adpihi, her chance of having a fourth, or even a fifth, son, may be significantly high. There may be many mothers who have to come up with some other reason for giving their fourth or fifth sons the 2nd individual names they choose for them. And a few who have to choose non-relatives to name their sixth and/or seventh sons after.

Again special circumstances may obtain. If all four of her grandparents and both of her parents had only one child each, but she marries twice and has four children by each husband, only one of whom is a daughter, she will need to name five sons (her 3rd thru 7th sons) after non-relatives.

Not very likely; but probably a common trope in fiction.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

Note that boys can’t have the same 1st individual name as any full-brother nor any agnate half-brother; and can’t have the same 2nd individual name as any full-brother nor any uterine half-brother. So their combined 1st and 2nd individual names, distinguish them from all their full- and half-brothers.

They also can’t share a 1st individual name with their father, nor father’s father, nor father’s (full or half, agnate or uterine) brother, nor father’s grandfather, nor father’s uncle.
And they can’t share a 2nd individual name with their mother’s father nor their mother’s (full or half, agnate or uterine) brother.
So their combined individual names also distinguish them from recent lineal and close collateral ancestors.

But not so much from first cousins! They’ll share 1st individual names with lots of first- and also more-distant cousins on their father’s side; and share 2nd individual names with (especially) first- (and probably also more distant) cousins on their mother’s side. The chance that some first cousin will have exactly the same combination of 1st and 2nd individual names is low, but not zero; especially if they’re a double-parallel-first-cousin, and the birth-orders just happen to line up right.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

As for the first individual names a woman will give her daughters :
A woman will name her first four daughters after the first individual names of the woman’s own great grandmothers.
A woman will name her fifth and subsequent daughters after the first individual names of her grandaunts, in so far as possible.
She’ll name her oldest daughter after her own MMM;
name her 2nd daughter after her own FMM;
name her 3rd daughter after her own MFM;
and name her 4th daughter after her own FFM.
If possible, a woman will name her 5th daughter after the 1st individual name of the woman’s own MM’s oldest (full or half, agnate or uterine) sister;
she’ll (try to, or rather, want to) name her 6th daughter after her FM’s oldest sister;
name her 7th daughter after her MF’s oldest sister;
name her 8th daughter after her FF’s oldest sister;
name her 9th daughter after her MM’s 2nd-oldest sister;
and similarly name her 10th, 11th, and 12th daughters after the 1st individual names of the 2nd-oldest sisters of her FM, her MF, and her FF respectively.
She’ll name her 13th thru 16th daughters after the 3rd-oldest sisters of her grandparents, in the order MM, FM, MF, FF; then name her 17th thru 20th daughters after her grandparents’ 4th-oldest sisters.

A mother will always make exceptions to avoid giving her daughter the mother’s own 1st individual name, or a 1st individual name she has already given to an older daughter, or a 1st individual name belonging to the mother’s own mother, or to any of the mother’s own (full or half, agnate or uterine) sisters, or to either of the mother’s own grandmothers, or to any of the mother’s own aunts. If she has to skip one, whether to avoid duplicating a 1st individual name or because no such older female relative exists, she will go on to the next older female relative in the sequence.

She’s unlikely to run out of older female relatives by her sixth daughter, and stands a reasonably good chance of being able to name her seventh daughter after one of the mother’s own grandaunts.

It’s unlikely, even in early-to-mid Adpihi, but especially in Reptigan and (even) late Adpihi, that a woman will have more than seven children, let alone more than seven daughters.

But, if her parents and grandparents and great grandparents each had only one child, and she has seven daughters, she’ll have to name the youngest three daughters after someone else, not a great grandmother nor a grandaunt.

A woman’s oldest daughter’s oldest daughter’s oldest daughter’s oldest daughter, will have the same 1st individual name, as the woman herself has. IOW a line of mothers-and-oldest-daughters will rotate through a cycle of four first individual names, repeating every fourth generation.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

As for the 2nd individual names fathers give their daughters:
With exceptions that become increasingly possible the later the daughter’s birth-order is;
a father will name his first daughter and (probably) his second daughter after the 2nd individual names of the father’s own grandmothers,
and (try or want or intend to) name his 3rd and subsequent daughters after (2nd individual names of) the father’s own aunts.
A man will give his oldest daughter the same 2nd individual name as the man’s own FM (father’s mother);
give his 2nd daughter the same 2nd individual name as that of his own MM (mother’s mother);
name his 3rd daughter after his own father’s oldest (full or half, agnate or uterine) sister;
name his 4th daughter after his own mother’s oldest sister;
name his 5th daughter after his father’s 2nd-oldest sister;
and so on.

He’ll carefully avoid giving a daughter the same 2nd individual name as one of his older daughters, or of his mother, or any of his (full or half, agnate or uterine) sisters. If a particular older female relative’s 2nd individual name has already been used by him to name one of his daughters, or no such older female relative has ever existed, he’ll go on to the next older female relative in the sequence.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

Remarks similar to the above remarks, apply to the possibility of a father running out of namesake aunts after whom to name his daughters in their 2nd individual names, and the impossibility of two full- or half-sisters having the same combination of first and second individual names, and the impossibility of a girl having the same combination of individual names as certain close lineal and collateral ancestors, and the duplication of individual names among cousins of the same sex, especially double-parallel-first-cousins.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====
_________________
"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission
-----------------------------
I am also eldin raigmore.


Last edited by chiarizio on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:28 pm; edited 7 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject: Individual Personal Names in Adpihi and Reptigan Reply with quote

Same-sex double-parallel-first-cousins* will have the same matriclan, the same patriclan, and the same rope, as each other.
And they might also have the same 1st individual name and also the same 2nd individual name.
(* if their fathers are each other’s full brothers and their mothers are each other’s full sisters)

But their fathers won’t share any individual names; neither will their mothers.
So, since in Adpihi and Reptigan, it is common, when introducing yourself or someone else, or when signing something important or formal, to mention the introducee’s or the signer’s parents’ names, as well as the introducee’s or signer’s own full five-part name, the two cousins can be distinguished by name.

OTOH they’ll probably have been given different nicknames by their godparents, from before they could walk or talk or, probably, crawl or eat solid food.

If they’re girls they’ll have both been nicknamed by their mothers’ father; he won’t have given them the same nickname.
If they’re boys they’ll have both been nicknamed by their fathers’ mother; she won’t have given them the same nickname.

The nickname given them by the appropriate grandparent (the same-sex-parent’s opposite-sex-parent) is the name they’ll be called en famille at least until young adulthood, and probably for life. And once they reach adulthood, they’ll get other nicknames related to their educations and careers and romances, which are unlikely to be identical; so friends and acquaintances from outside the family will also probably call them by different nicknames.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

There is still a possibility for a duplication of an individual name to slip through the cracks.

Sometimes a person from an “earlier” generation is born (and hence named) chronologically later than a person from a “later” generation.

The system I described in my previous post makes no attempt to keep a child from being given a same individual name as a family member from a “later” generation, even if that family member is chronologically older than the child in question.

So it’s not impossible that, for instance, a boy may share a 1st individual name as his younger uncle.
Or something like that. I might have gotten some detail wrong due to some brainfart or other.

==== ==== ==== ====

Wow! I’m done! And it’s only 12:49 A.M., about six hours after I started!

I hope some other CWBBoardmembers will read the gist of these last two posts, and not get bored by my main thrust and main points, even if no-one reads the whole thing!

But if you even try to read any of it, I thank you;
and if you comment, I thank you doubly!
_________________
"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission
-----------------------------
I am also eldin raigmore.


Last edited by chiarizio on Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Duplicate individual names in Adpihi and Reptigan Reply with quote

If a man and his agnate half-brother both have sons, then:
their oldest sons will have the same 1st individual name;
their 3rd sons will have the same 1st individual name (if they both have 3rd sons);
their 5th sons will probably have the same 1st individual name (if they both have 5th sons); and
their 7th sons might have the same 1st individual name (if they both have 7th sons);
etc.

If a man and his agnate half-brother both have daughters, then:
their oldest daughters will have the same 2nd individual name;
their 3rd daughters will probably have the same 2nd individual name;
and, with decreasing likelihood as the birth-order increases,
their 5th daughters will probably share the same 2nd individual name,
their 7th daughters might share the same 2nd individual name,
and so on through the odd-numbered birth-order daughters.

.... .... .... ....

If a man and his uterine half-brother both have sons, we would expect that;
their 2nd sons would share the same 1st individual name,
their 4th sons would share the same 1st individual name,
their 6th sons would probably share the same 1st individual name,
and so on through their even-numbered-birth-order sons.

If a man and his uterine half-brother both have daughters, we’d expect that:
their 2nd daughters would have the same 2nd individual name,
their 4th daughters might have the same 2nd individual name,
and so on through their even-numbered-birth-order daughters.

————— ————— ————— ————— —————

If a woman and her uterine half-sister both have daughters, we’d expect their odd-numbered-birth-order (e.g. 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) daughters to share their 1st individual names with their same-birth-order same-sex parallel cousin.
And we’d expect their odd-numbered-birth-order sons to share their 2nd individual names with their same-birth-order same-sex parallel cousin.

If a woman and her agnate half-sister both have daughters, we’d expect their even-numbered-birth-order daughters to share their 1st individual names with their same-birth-order same-sex parallel cousin. And we’d expect their even-numbered-birth-order sons to share their 2nd individual names with their same-birth-order same-sex parallel cousin.

————— ————— —————

So if agnate half-brothers marry uterine half-sisters, then every odd-numbered son or odd-numbered daughter of either couple will have the same combination of individual names as the same-sex same-birth-order child of the other couple.

Likewise if uterine half-brothers marry agnate half-sisters, then every even-numbered son or daughter of either couple will have the same combination of individual names as the same-birth-order same-sex child of the other couple.

If full-brothers marry full-sisters, every child of either couple can be expected to have the same combination of first and second individual names as the same-birth-order same-sex child of the other couple.

Up to a point.

==================

If agnate half-brothers marry uterine half-sisters, then the sons of one couple don’t have the same father’s mother as the sons of the other couple, and the daughters of one couple don’t have the same mother’s father as the daughters of the other couple. So there’s no guarantee they won’t get the same nickname as their same-birth-order same-sex double-half-cousins.

OTOH if uterine half-brothers marry agnate half-sisters, the sons of each couple will have the same father’s mother as the sons of the other couple, and she won’t give any two of them the same nickname. Likewise the daughters of each couple will have the same mother’s father as the daughters of the other couple, and he won’t give any two of them the same nickname. So even though their even-numbered sons and even-numbered daughters will share the same individual names (both 1st and 2nd) with the same-numbered same-sex double-half-cousins, they won’t have the same nickname.

.................................

But note that if agnate half-brothers marry uterine half-sisters, their sons will have different mother’s fathers, and so might have different “ropes”. Likewise their daughters will have different father’s mothers, and so might have different ropes. So each child of each couple might be distinguished from their same-numbered same-sex double-parallel-half-cousin by belonging to a different rope and having a different rope-name.

If uterine half-brothers marry agnate half-sisters, then the children of each couple will have a different father’s father from children of the other couple, and so might have a different patriclan..
Likewise the children of one couple will have a different mother’s mother from the children of the other couple, and so might have a different matriclan.
But the sons of both couples will have the same mother’s father, and so the same rope. Likewise the daughters of both couples will have the same father’s mother, and so the same rope.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:43 pm    Post subject: Duplicat personl names fr parallel cousns in Adpihi & Re Reply with quote

I want to reorganize the information from above in a way that may be more comprehensible or easier to look up for certain purposes.

Let H1 and W1 be married to each other, and let H2 and W2 be married to each other.

Suppose W1 and W2 have the same mother.
Then:
* All the children of both couples will have the same matriclan.
* No son of either couple will have the same “nickname” as any son of the other couple.
* The odd-numbered daughters of the first couple will have the same 1st individual names as the same-numbered daughters of the other couple.
* The odd-numbered sons of the first couple will have the same 2nd individual names as the same-numbered sons of the second couple.

Suppose W1 and W2 have the same father. Then:
* All the sons of both couples will have the same “rope”.
* The even-numbered daughters of each couple will have the same 1st individual names as the same-numbered daughters of the other couple.
* The even-numbered sons of each couple will have the same 2nd individual names as the same-numbered sons of the other couple.

Suppose H1 and H2 have the same mother. Then:
* All the daughters of both couples will have the same “rope”.
* The even-numbered daughters of each couple will have the same 2nd individual names as the same-numbered daughters of the other couple.
* The even-numbered sons of each couple will have the same 1st individual names as the same-numbered sons of the other couple.

Suppose H1 and H2 have the same father. Then:
* All the children of both couples will have the same patriclan.
* No daughter of either couple will have the same “nickname” as any daughter of the other couple.
* The odd-number daughters of each couple will have the same 2nd individual names as the same-number daughters of the other couple.
* The odd-number sons of each couple will have the same 1st individual name as the same-number son of the other couple.

================================================

If full-brothers marry full-sisters, no son of either couple will share an en famille nickname with any son of the other couple; nor will any daughter of either couple share a nickname with any daughter of the other couple.
That will be the only way to distinguish them by name until they grow up and start getting their own nicknames.

If full brothers marry uterine half sisters, the sons of one couple probably have a different rope from the sons of the other couple. In addition their fathers’ mother will give them distinct nicknames. But the daughters of each couple have the same FM and are in her rope. Also, the MF of one couple’s daughters won’t be th same man as the MF of the other couple’s daughters, so there’s no guarantee one of the daughters of the first couple won’t be given the same nickname as some daughter of the other couple. And the odd-number daughters of each couple will share both individual names with the same-number daughters of the other couple. So there isn’t guaranteed to be a way to distinguish, by name, two such odd-numbered daughters from one another.

If full brothers marry agnate half sisters, the MM of one couple’s children will be a different woman than the MM of the other couple’s children; so they’ll probably have different matrilines. The sons will all belong to the same rope (their MF’s rope). (The daughters will all belong to their FM’s rope.) The daughters will all be given distinct nicknames by their MF. (The sons will all be given distinct nicknames by their FM.)

If agnate half brothers marry full sisters, the daughters of one couple might not have the same rope as the daughters of the other couple. But the sons of each couple will have a different FM from the sons of the other couple, so there’s nothing to stop 🛑 ✋ a son of one couple from being given the same nickname as a son of the other couple. And odd-numbered sons of each couple will have the same first and second individual names as the same-number sons of the other couple. Likewise the odd-numbered daughters of each couple will have the same first and second individual names as the same number daughters of the other couple; but they’ll be in different ropes and will have different nicknames.

If uterine half brothers marry full sisters, the children of one couple will have a different FF than the children of the other couple. So probably one couple’s children won’t share a patriclan with the children of the other couple.
But the sons will all share their MF and his rope, and the daughters will all share their FM and her rope, and all the children will share their MM and her matriclan. Since the boys all have the same FM, she’ll give them all distinct nicknames; since the girls all share their MF, he’ll give them all distinct nicknames. The even-numbered boys of each couple will have the same first and second individual names as the same-number sons of the other couple; and the even-numbered girls will also share their full individual name with the same-numbered daughter of the other couple.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I haven’t discussed what happens if agnate half brothers marry agnate half sisters; nor if uterine half brothers marry uterine half sisters.
You could probably figure it out for yourself if you want to.

EDIT
I decided I would do uterine halfsisters marrying uterine halfbrothers, and let you work out the agnates-marry-agnates case yourself.

Every child of both couples will share their common MM’s matriclan.
They’ll not have the same FF, so one couple’s children will probably have a different patriclan from the other couple’s children.
Since they all have the same FM, all the daughters of either couple will share her rope.
Since they have different MFs, the sons of one couple will probably have a different rope from the sons of the other couple.
Since they have different MFs, there’s nothing to keep a daughter of one couple from getting the same nickname as a daughter of the other couple.
Since they have the same FM, she won’t use the same nickname twice for her various sons’ sons; in particular no son of either couple has the same nickname as any son of the other couple.
Every odd-numbered daughter will have the same 1st individual name as the same-numbered daughter of the other couple.
Every even-numbered daughter will have the same 2nd individual name as the same-number daughter of the other couple.
Every even-numbered son will have the same 1st individual name as the same-number son of the other couple.
Every odd-number son will have the same 2nd individual name as the same-number son of the other couple.

If any child of one of the couples has the same combination of first and second individual names as some child of the other couple, it’s not systematic; it’s a coincidence. Such a coincidence is much more likely for this set of double-parallel-half-cousins than some others, but probably not very likely even if each couple has 20 sons or 20 daughters——is my guess.
Even if they do, if they’re sons, they’ll have different ropes and different nicknames.
And, whether they’re sons or daughters, the children of one couple will probably have a different patriclan than the children of the other couple.
/EDIT

###############################################

I’m curious about what happens to double-cross-cousins.
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-----------------------------
I am also eldin raigmore.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject: Double-Cross-Cousins in Adpihi and Reptigan Reply with quote

Suppose H1 and W1 are a married couple, and H2 and W2 are likewise a married couple.

Suppose H1 and W2 are full brother and full sister, and W1 and H2 are likewise full sister and brother.

Let H1 and W1 have four sons (S11, S12, S13, and S14) together, and also have four daughters (D11, D12, D13, and D14) together.

Let H2 and W2 have four sons (S21, S22, S23, and S24) together, and also have four daughters (D21, D22, D23, and D24) together.

S11 will be named (H1&W2’s FFF’s 1st name) (W1&H2’s MF’s 2nd name)
S12 will be named (H1&W2’s MFF’s 1st name) (W1&H2’s FF’s 2nd name)
S13 will be named (H1&W2’s FMF’s 1st name) (W1&H2’s M’s oldest brother’s 2nd name)
S14 will be named (H1&W2’s MMF’s 1st name) (W1&H2’s F’s oldest brother’s 2nd name)

But
S21 will be named (W1&H2’s FFF’s 1st name) (H1&W2’s MF’s 2nd name)
S22 will be named (W1&H2’s MFF’s 1st name) (H1&W2’s FF’s 2nd name)
....
(Etc.)

I’m pretty sure there won’t be any systematic duplication of 1st individual names, nor of 2nd individual names; let alone of the combination..

Coincidences are still possible; but they’re probably unlikely.
If they become likely, even only for certain individual names, the way and reason this came about, might be worth a story.

I’m getting sleepy 😴 💤 🛏 😑, so I’m not going to finish this now. I think it’s pretty clear where it’s going. Maybe when I have more energy I’ll want to push it further.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A matriline or matriclan is called a “milk”.
A patriline or patriclan is called a “blood”.
A geun or alterclan is called a “rope”.

====================

A man will co-operate especially with his full-brothers, but also with his half-brothers, to avoid naming a child after a living relative who already has a parallel-cousin (of the child) named after them, and avoid naming a child after a deceased relative who already has two such parallel-cousins named after them.

Likewise a woman will co-operate especially with her full-sisters, but also with her half-sisters, to avoid naming a child after a living relative who already has a parallel-cousin (of the child) named after them, and avoid naming a child after a deceased relative who already has two such parallel-cousins named after them.

====================

Based on
http://conworlds.fun/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=14632&highlight=adpihi+forename#14632
If double-parallel-first-cousins, do wind up having the same combination of first and second individual personal names, they may nevertheless be distinguishable by name, if they were born in different years, or in different months, or in a different birth-order within their sibling-sets.

——————————

In addition to celebrating and honouring their mother and their father, Adpihi and Reptigan honor their oldest sibling. This might mean they honor two siblings, at least one of whom is a half-sibling; their mother’s oldest child, and their father’s oldest child. (Or perhaps their mother’s oldest child is the same person as their father's oldest child.)
This Siblings’ Day celebration might be just as big, in Early and Middle Adpihi, and maybe also, at least for some families, in Late Adpihi and maybe Early Reptigan, as Mothers’ Day and Fathers’ Day. But by Middle Reptigan, and maybe by Early Reptigan for some families, it will be fading out; and by Late Reptigan, and maybe by Middle Reptigan for many families, it will have become a much smaller celebration; because a third to a half of the population will be the oldest child of at least one of their parents, and almost all of them will have at most two younger siblings; many will have only one younger sibling, and perhaps as many as half of them will have no younger sibling.
Say perhaps 1% have three or more younger siblings; 34% have two younger siblings; 34% have one younger sibling; and 31% have no younger sibling.

====================

Early Adpihi will have a kinterm system that depends on, among other things, the sex of the speaker. So F(fs) and F(ms) won’t be the same word; M(fs) and M(ms) will also be different. So will B(fs) and B(ms), and Z(fs) and Z(ms), and S(fs) and S(ms), and D(fs) and D(ms).
But I’m thinking of making B(ms) and Z(fs) be the same word. That is, the kinterm by which a woman calls her sister, and the kinterm by which a man calls his brother, will be the same word.

It will be a “Sudanese” type kinterm-system. That is, for a given speaker, MM, MF, FM, and FF will be four separate terms. Furthermore, for a given speaker, MZ, MBW, FZ, and FBW, will be (at least) four separate terms, as will MB, MZH, FB, and FZH.
For a given male speaker, WB and ZH will be at least two separate terms; and for a given female speaker, HZ and BW will be at least two separate terms.
DD, DS, SD, and SS, will be at least four separate terms.

However, it will be classificatory.
For instance, MZ and M will be the same term, for a given speaker.
So will ZZ and Z; and so will WZ and W; and so will DZ and D.
And so will FB and F; and BB and B; and HB and H; and SB and S.

And so will BM(fs) and FW(fs); and DB(ms) and WS(ms); and HD(fs) and SZ(fs); and MH(ms) and ZF(ms).

So far that’s true of any classificatory kinterm system of the FB=F and MZ=M type.

Early Adpihi also has MF(ms) = DS(fs), and FM(fs) = SD(fs).

And it has MBWB(ms) = WBWF(ms).
And WBWBWB(ms) = ZHZHZH(ms), and BWBWBW(fs) = HZHZHZ(fs).
And other homonyms.
So it really has only 216 kinterms for any given speaker,
108 for female speaker and female referent,
108 for female speaker and male referent,
108 for male speaker and female referent, and
108 for male speaker and male referent.
This amounts to at most 431 kinterms, because the terms for Z(fs) (female speaker and female referent) and for B(ms) (male speaker and male referent), are homonymous.

++++++++++++++++++++

Later, in Middle and Late Adpihi, it will become necessary to distinguish which of two siblings is elder and which is younger; this is common in natcultures too.
Peculiar to Adpihi, as far as I know, it will become important to distinguish, between two people who are each other’s spouse, which is elder and which is younger.
And, like in at least some natcultures, it will be necessary to distinguish which of two co-spouses (e.g. a man’s two wives) which is elder and which is younger.
It will also be necessary to distinguish between full-siblings and half-siblings; and between uterine half-siblings and agnate half-siblings. Many natcultures have one term for full- and agnate-half- -siblings, and another for uterine-half-siblings. Many others have a term for full- and uterine-half- -siblings, and another for agnate-half-siblings. English has one term for uterine- and agnate- -half-siblings, and another for full-siblings.
Adpihi may begin to need to make the three-way distinction. Or it may have only two kinds of term; one for full or agnate half siblings (they have the same father, and they may have the same mother or may have different mothers) and the other for full or uterine half siblings (they have the same mother, and they may or may not have the same father).
Also, Early Adpihi won’t distinguish between parents and step-parents, nor between children and step-children, nor between siblings and step-siblings. Middle Adpihi will begin to need to make such distinctions, at least at betrothals and christenings.

Consequently a second, auxiliary, kinterm system will develop, which will connect EGO to ALTER through a chain of two or three or four people (counting EGO and ALTER), in which each link in the chain will be between a parent and a child; and the kinterm will encapsulate the sex of each person in the chain, and also the relative ages (that is, which one is older and which one is younger) of each two people in the chain, whether they are directly linked or not. So there’ll be 8 primary, 48 secondary, and 384 tertiary kinterms in this system.

Later, there will be more than three “milks” (matriclans), more than three “bloods” (patriclans), and more than three “ropes”. As a result, the marriage system will become less and less prescriptive. The kinterm system will remain classificatory; but many equivalences, identifications, or homonymies, will no longer make sense, or at least no longer be reliable.
Reptigan’s kinterms will be derived from Adpihi’s but modifiers or particles or enclitics or proclitics or even prefixes or suffixes will be added, to differentiate between relationships which were given the same kinterm in Old Adpihi, but warrant sesparate kinterms in Reptigan.

For a male speaker, there’ll be the following kinterms:
One zeroth-degree kinterm, B(ms).
Four 1st-degree terms, all for female ALTERs; M, Z, W, and D.
Ten 2nd-degree terms, all for male ALTERs; MF, MB, MH=ZF, ZH, ZS, WF, WB, WS=DB, DH, DS.
24 3rd-degree terms, all for female ALTERs; MFM, MFZ, MFW=MBM, MBW, MBD, MHM=ZFM, MHZ=ZFZ, ZHM, ZHZ, ZHD=ZSZ, ZSW, ZSD, WFM, WFZ, WFW=WBM, WBW, WBD, WSW=DBW, WSD=DBD, DHM, DHZ, DHD=DSZ, DSW, DSD.
Probably 58 4th-degree kinterms, all for male ALTERs; list not reproduced here yet;
Probably 140 5th-degree kinterms, all for female ALTERs; (never intend to list them all here);
Probably a lot fewer than 338 6th-degree kinterms for Male ALTERs;
and no 7th-or-further-degree kinterms.

For a female speaker, there’ll similarly be the following kinterms.
Degree 0, female referent; Z(fs)
Degree 1, male referent; F, B, H, S
Degree 2, female referent; FM, FZ, FW=BM, BW, BD, HM, HZ, HD=SZ, SW, SD
Degree 3, male referent; sim to for male speaker degree 3;
Etc. for degrees 4, 5, & 6;
and no degree 7.

If someone needs to express a relationship which cannot be adequately expressed by using one or more of the means mentioned in this entire post so far, the speaker may also mention the addressee’s relationship to the referent. And/or, the speaker may link two relationships, essentially saying that the referent is some relative’s relative. In general it will usually not be necessary to express a relationship more distant than fourth-degree; though, to conclude a betrothal, one can expect to examine relatives out to the sixth degree. (In laterish Reptigan fifth-degree relatives won’t be marriageable, but sixth-degree relatives usually will be marriageable, if there’s no other bar to the marriage).
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Last edited by chiarizio on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:26 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A married person’s clansmen (gender-neutral meaning is intended), and their spouse’s clansmen, may, and often do, refer to and address them by the clan names of their spouse, by a phrase meaning, in effect,
“Husband of a (milkname and/or bloodname and/or ropename) clanswoman”
or
“Wife of a (milkname and/or bloodname and/or ropename) clansman”.
If that full phrase is too much of a mouthful — longer than about five syllables, depending on how the speaker feels about it at the moment — the speaker can shorten it by leaving out one or two of the clannames.
Speakers can choose which clannames to use, and what order to use them in, according to what they want to emphasize at the time, or simply according to whim.

Most clannames are two syllables long; some are just one syllable, and some are three.

So the most common constructions of this type are
Mr./Mrs. spouse’s-milkname spouse’s-bloodname
and
Mr./Mrs. spouse’s-milkname spouse’s-ropename
and
Mr./Mrs. spouse’s-bloodname spouse’s-ropename

Most commonly the order of the clannames the speaker will use depends on which clan or clans the speaker shares with the addressee and/or the addressee’s spouse. Maybe sometimes it will depend on which clans the speaker’s spouse shares with the addressee and/or the addressee’s spouse.

If one or more of the addressee’s (usually) or referent’s (sometimes) spouse’s clannames is only one syllable long, it’s usual for the speaker to include at least one of those one-syllable clannames. An exception might be if two of the names are two-syllable names and for some reason the speaker wanted to be sure to include them both.

OTOH if two or more of the addressee’s spouse’s (or referent’s spouse’s) clannames were three-syllable names, and none were one-syllable names, most speakers would usually choose just one of those clannames to use.

—————

TEKNONYMY

When a couple are expecting, both of them are hoping for a girl, and both of them are hoping for a boy. (Maybe not if they already have two or three girls and no boys, or already have two or three boys and no girls.)

Not so for the grandparents.

Both grandfathers want at least one, and better two, of each of SSs (son’s sons) and DSs (daughter’s sons). But both grandmothers want at least one, and preferably two, of each of SDs and DDs.

When a woman’s first SD is born, she will “promote” the mother (her SW daughter-in-law) to “honored daughter-in-law”. Most of them will also do something similar, but not as extravagant, for the daughter-in-law who is the mother of their second SD. Most of them don’t do anything all that special for the mother of their third or subsequent SDs. (But they may if one of the earlier granddaughters dies.). Frequently the mother of their third SD was already the mother of one of their first two SDs, anyway.
Once the granddaughter is named, the grandmother will begin referring to and/or addressing the grandaughter’s parents as “grandaughter’s-name’s father” and “granddaughter’s-name’s mother”.

When a woman’s first DD is born, she will “promote” the father (her DH son-in-law) to “honored son-in-law”. Most of them will also do something similar, but not as extravagant, for the son-in-law who is the father of their second DD. Most of them don’t do anything all that special for the father of their third or subsequent DDs. (But they may if one of their older daughter’s daughters have died.). Frequently the father of their third DD is already the father of one of their first two DDs anyway.
Once the granddaughter is named, the grandmother will begin referring to and/or addressing the grandaughter’s parents as “grandaughter’s-name’s father” and “granddaughter’s-name’s mother”.

When a woman’s first granddaughter is named, she may start going by “granddaughter’s-name’s grandmother”.

When a man’s first SS is born, he will “promote” the mother (his SW daughter-in-law) to “honored daughter-in-law”. Most of them will also do something similar, but not as extravagant, for the daughter-in-law who is the mother of their second SS. Most of them don’t do anything all that special for the mother of their third or subsequent SSs. (But they may if one of the earlier SS grandsons dies.). Frequently the mother of their third SS was already the mother of one of their first two SSs anyway.
Once the grandson is named, the grandfather will begin referring to and/or addressing the grandson’s parents as “grandson’s-name’s father” and “grandson’s-name’s mother”.

When a man’s first DS is born, he will “promote” the father (his DH son-in-law) to “honored son-in-law”. Most of them will also do something similar, but not as extravagant, for the son-in-law who is the father of their second DS. Most of them don’t do anything all that special for the father of their third or subsequent DSs. (But they may if one of the earlier DS grandsons dies.). Frequently the father of their third DS was already the father of one of their first two DSs anyway.
Once the grandson is named, the grandfather will begin referring to and/or addressing the grandson’s parents as “grandson’s-name’s father” and “grandson’s-name’s mother”.

When a man’s first grandson is named, he may start going by “grandson’s-name’s grandfather”.

====================

Especially when young, but often even into their late teens or even early twenties, a young person’s (X’s) most intimate friends and/or most frequent associates will address that friend’s parents as “X’s father” and “X’s mother”. Similarly they’ll address X’s grandparents and aunts and uncles by “X’s (kinterm)”.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be better to call a matriclan something related to a house, rather than milk. I like both and hope I can do something that’s essentially both. “Milk” because hey, mothers; house because real estate, especially buildings, especially especially residences, are inherited by daughters mostly.

Maybe cattle-owning families’ division of labor has the women doing the dairy work and the men doing the pasturing and herding.
Then a patriline might be called something related to a trail or a track or a path. I’m thinking “blood-path” might be good. It would also work for societies wherein the men do the hunting, or most of it; and maybe, the butchering.

And the matriline might be a “milk-house”, i e a dairy.

As long as I’m calling the rope a “rope”, I might as well pun it with Spanish’s ropa. Maybe every rope has their signature clothing-style, and they all use the same style of nets and ropes and reins and saddle-blankets and so on as members of the same rope. Maybe each rope has their own segment of the textile industry. Maybe spinning wheels and looms and so on are always inherited by a child of the opposite sex from the bequestor. Maybe matrilines own the pasture the sheep graze in, and the sheep’s milk; patrilines own the sheep proper and their meat; and ropes own the sheeps’ wool.
With cotton or linen etc., the matriline would own the land and the plants; the ropes would own the fibre; and possibly the patrilines would own the seeds?

(The idea is that men, or rather patrilines, own what’s portable, and by extension most things that usually move from one place to another. Women, or rather matrilines, own property that’s fixed in place and impossible (land) or almost impossible (trees, buildings) to move. Ropes own intangible and invisible assets; but maybe they should also own equipment that’s difficult, but not impossible, to move, if it’s connected with clothing or printing or publishing or manufacture of textiles.)

So each matriclan has its own style of dairy-product and its own style of architecture.
Each patrician has its own hunting trails, its own herding tracks, its own style of warfare and combat and weapons and so on; as well as its own style of meat.
And each rope has its own style of cloth and of clothing, from the fabric as it’s harvested from the plant or sheared from the animal, through carding and spinning and dying and weaving and printing, and cutting and sewing. Plus a rope probably has their own style of art, or music, or literature, or dance, or invention, or scientific research, or whatever else I haven’t thought of, including, probably, political ideas, and maybe religious ideas too.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think instead of “rope”, I’ll call their alterclan or geun a “robe”.

So their word for “matriclan” translates literally as “milkhouse”;
their word for “patriclan” translates literally as “bloodpath”;
and their word for geun translates literally as “robe”.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post doesn’t apply to Late Reptigan. It applies to Middle and/or Early Reptigan, probably both.

A Reptigan woman can’t marry her MMBSS nor her MMMBSS nor her MMMMBSS etc., because then her MM and his FF would belong to the same milkhouse.
A Reptigan woman can’t marry her FFZDS nor her FFFZDS nor her FFFFZDS etc., because then her FF and his MM would belong to the same bloodpath.
A Reptigan woman can’t marry her MMBSS nor her MMBSSS nor her MMBSSSS etc. because then her MM and his FF would belong to the same bloodpath.
A Reptigan woman can’t marry her FFZDS nor her FFZDDS nor her FFZDDDS etc., because then her FF and his MM would belong to the same milkhouse.

A Reptigan man can’t marry his MMBSD nor his MMMBSD nor his MMMMBSD etc., because then his MM and her FF would belong to the same milkhouse.
A Reptigan man can’t marry his FFZDD nor his FFFZDD nor his FFFFZDD, because then his FF and her MM would belong to the same bloodpath.
A Reptigan man can’t marry his MMBSD nor his MMBSSD nor his MMBSSSD etc., because then his MM and her FF would belong to the same bloodpath.
A Reptigan man can’t marry his FFZDD nor his FFZDDD nor his FFZDDDD etc., because then his FF and her MM would belong to the same milkhouse.

A Reptigan woman can’t marry her FZS nor her FMFZS, because then her FM and his MM would belong to the same robe.
A Reptigan woman can’t marry her FZS nor her FZSDS, because then her FF and his MF would belong to the same robe.

A Reptigan man can’t marry his MBD nor his MFMBD, because then his MF and her FF would belong to the same robe.
A Reptigan man can’t marry his MBD nor his MBDSD, because then his MM and her FM would belong to the same robe.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:10 am    Post subject: Preferences for sex of first child. Reply with quote

If a young married couple of Adpihi or Reptigan is about to try to beget and conceive their first child, what sex will they hope the child will be?

If a young woman’s sisters have no daughters, but one of her sisters has a son, she will hope her first-born child is a daughter.
If her sisters have no sons, but one of them has a daughter, she will probably hope for her first-born to be a son.
Otherwise she’s likeliest to be swayed by her husband’s preference; or, by whether she has more sister’s sons than sister’s daughters (she’ll want a daughter), or she has more sister’s daughters than sister’s sons (she’ll want a son).

If a young man’s brothers have no daughters, but one of them has a son, he’ll likely want his firstborn to be a daughter.
If his brothers have no sons, but one of them has a daughter, he’ll likely want a son.
Otherwise if his wife has a strong preference he’s likely to go along with her.
Or, if his brothers have fewer daughters than sons, he might want a daughter; or if his brothers have fewer sons than daughters, he might want a son.

A woman’s first child is likely to be born to her first husband, who is probably already married and probably already the father of one, maybe two, children. He might therefore have a strong preference for a daughter if he has only sons or only a son; or he might strongly prefer a son next if he has only daughters or only a daughter.

Likewise a man’s first child is likely to be conceived by his first wife, who probably still is married to her first husband and probably already has one or two children. If she has only one child, or all of her children are the same sex, she might strongly prefer that her next child be of the other sex.

In general everybody will hope to have at least one child of each sex. Somebody with just as many sons as daughters (for instance, zero each, or one each), will if anything prefer the sex that is rarest among the offspring of their same-sex siblings.

Because of Adpihi’s emphasis on a personal relationship with God, an Adpihi person who thinks God wants them to have a child of a certain sex, will (probably) want just exactly that.

Because of Reptigan’s emphasis on personal etiquette, a Reptigan person is likely to give considerable weight to their spouse’s preference. They may not mention to their spouse that the prefer the opposite —— in the event they do so prefer, which is probably 22.2% of the time or less: (maybe 12.5% or less).

Reptigan couples who aren’t temporarily in technological backwaters nor short of liquid funds of working capital, can choose to select the sex of their child prior to conception. They may skip that for their first child. Or they may choose their first child’s sex but not their second’s. If their first two children are not each others’ sex, they probably won’t choose their third child’s sex; but if their first two children are both one sex, they may be likely to try to make sure their third child is the other sex.

That technology is not going to be available in Adpihi. It may be expensive and dangerous and unreliable in Early Reptigan; safe and reliable, but still expensive and hard to get to in Middle Reptigan; and widely available, and more reasonably priced (but not exactly cheap!) in Late Reptigan.
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"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission
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I am also eldin raigmore.
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