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Ngala

 
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Sano
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Ngala Reply with quote

Ngala

An inscriptional system of quasi-featural glyphs, mostly monosyllabic.



As you see there is a spot for each radical, onset, nucleus and coda. The red squares are potential connection points.

To form many words the 2nd nucleus position is needed and can be seen in a few of the examples below. But first, the radical values:



As you can see, each radical has two to three varying values depending on where it falls in the glyph.

I have followed the lead of fmra in reverse engineering a few of these glyphs to be somewhat pictographic, please pay no attention to my child-like artistic inabilities.



myong /mjo:N/ - n. a large feline, tiger lion…etc

As you can see, each radical spot is used, top left: M, bottom left: YA, top right: O, bottom right: NG. In this glyph the O modifies the YA and makes it YO.


A possible handwritten version of myong, but keep in mind, these glyphs would rarely ever be handwritten.



guja /gu:Za:/ - n. water, stream, creek

In the above you see an example of a disyllabic glyph. Disyllabic glyphs only occur when the second syllable is one of the following nuclei: a, o, ja, ha, ya, la, ra. There are occasions when these are modifying the preceding nucleus and not acting as second syllables and the occurrences are based on phonotactic rules. E.g. ya-a is /ja:.a:/, but ya-o is /jo:/.



n’ha /n@?.h\a:/ - n. a cut, gash, slash v. to cut, hack, slice

In this sample you see that only two radical positions are used, this is perfectly acceptable. They are variable to give way to more “pictographic” possibilities.



toj /to:Z/ - n. warrior, fighter, combatant

This sample shows how the secondary nucleus position can be used without the first, the glyph remains readable.



Another example of a handwritten glyph, toj.

A longer sample:


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lryda mbazha
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I like the handwritten examples---very elegant.
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Blake
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautifully systematic. I'd bet you could even write a program that could convert the nearly digital nature of your radicals into the written script form if you wanted to, and automatically generate pronunciation (pretty easily) to spit out a dictionary in no time.

I love algorithmic systems like this; and your consistency will be beautiful.

I suppose the only problem might be, in respect to a real language, it would lack natural inconsistencies. Do you have any plans to muck it up a bit after you finish the basics?
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Sano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blake wrote:
I suppose the only problem might be, in respect to a real language, it would lack natural inconsistencies. Do you have any plans to muck it up a bit after you finish the basics?


You've pinned down the main issue I have with the script...it's extremely artificial in it's systematical nature.

I am uncertain about few things, like the values of a few of the radicals, and the respective positions of the onset, coda etc...these are all things subject to change.

My immediate plan is to create the glyphs for the 358 base syllables and see how I feel about the overall outcome, aesthetically and functionally. At that point I will have a better grasp on the script and will feel better about making long term decisions about both the minor and major details.
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Last edited by Sano on Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was brought to my attention that not all browsers support the transparent backgrounds of my images so I am posting links to the images with plain white backgrounds for those that can't see the images.



http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala2.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala3.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_guja.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_mongha.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_myong.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_myong2.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_nha.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_toj.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_toj2.png

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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sano wrote:
It was brought to my attention that not all browsers support the transparent backgrounds of my images so I am posting links to the images with plain white backgrounds for those that can't see the images.



http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala2.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala3.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_guja.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_mongha.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_myong.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_myong2.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_nha.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_toj.png
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_toj2.png
I can see them beautifully.
I can tell how the glyph's shapes resemble the schematicized pictures of the things they stand for.
I like the system as a whole; it looks similar to Hangul.
Are your "radicals" like the triconsonantal roots, or like the "radical-and-determiner" and "semantic-and-phonetic" logograms of standard Chinese writing? Or like Hangul? (Or like some in some ways and others in other ways; or like some, but more like others?)
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Sano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The radicals convey phonemic information eldin, not semantic or determinative , that makes them mostly like Hangul. I thought that was apparent.
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Sano
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ngala.php

Simon was eager to add this page.
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chiarizio
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sano wrote:
I thought that was apparent.
It wasn't. Now it is.
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Sano
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chiarizio wrote:
Sano wrote:
I thought that was apparent.
It wasn't. Now it is.


How could you have missed it?
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Sano
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_mogu.png

An example of a dual glyph pictograph.

mogu /mo:.gu:/ - n. sleep, rest, relaxation | v. to sleep, lay, rest

I'm still working on a viable tri-glyph pictograph, but after much thought I'm fairly sure there is at least one.
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Blake
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sano wrote:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s214/qatama/ngala/ngala_mogu.png

An example of a dual glyph pictograph.

mogu /mo:.gu:/ - n. sleep, rest, relaxation | v. to sleep, lay, rest.



That's a very strange bed. Please explain the design.
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Sano
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blake wrote:
That's a very strange bed. Please explain the design.


It's abstract-impressionist. thumbright

Besides, Qatama beds are actually much closer to what we call cots. Thin wooden legs with tightly woven wool tied around as a "matress".
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Xhin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very amazing and abstract, Sano. Of course, I would expect nothing less from you Razz

BTW, are there any rules that determine how each radical connects to the one around it? Yours seem to be done somewhat hapharzardly. I know I was recently trying to make a script inspired off yours and I ran into this problem, do I have a long list of complicated rules, or do I simply try out the first thing that works and possibly miss a better looking glyph?
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Sano
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xhin wrote:
BTW, are there any rules that determine how each radical connects to the one around it?


In short, yes.

The examples above are as good as any to give a brief explanation.

Principal guideline; each radical be connected to at least one other radical.

Secondary guideline; they be connected at open points rather than at closed corners.

myong : As you see in myong, the radical is the same for /m/ in the onset and /ja:/ in the 1st nucleus poisiton. This does not fit within the secondary guideline but does fit the first and also lends to the pictographic image.

n'ha: With n'ha you see that the situation is the same as with myong, but myong has four radicals with value, where as n'ha only has the first two, this allows for variation using the two null radicals, and again aids in creating a pictograph that can be related to the meaning of the word.

guja: Guja happens to be rather straight forward with the exception of being disyllabic. All disllyabic glyphs are slaves to having two nuclei that must remain fixed to be read correctly, so they will often not fit with the secondary guideline.

toj: This glyph also takes advantage of the second nucleus position, but in a different way, to specifically lend toward a viable pictograph, having a null primary nucleus.

The tertiary and very loose guideline is to have the glyph be as "pictographic" as possible. Obviously excluding many abstracts and rigidly grammatical lexical entries.

I hope all of that makes sense.
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Leo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, it looks a bit like atoms bonding into molecules Smile
I imagine a society would develop a very rich calligraphy playing with alternate links, shifted radicals, ambiguous morphings, etc.
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chiarizio
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Ngala Reply with quote

The script I’ve been planning for Adpihi/Reptigan is a lot like this one. I want to remember Sano’s Ngala, in case I run into problems he has already solved.

Sano wrote:
Ngala

An inscriptional system of quasi-featural glyphs, mostly monosyllabic.



As you see there is a spot for each radical, onset, nucleus and coda. The red squares are potential connection points.

To form many words the 2nd nucleus position is needed and can be seen in a few of the examples below. But first, the radical values:



As you can see, each radical has two to three varying values depending on where it falls in the glyph.

I have followed the lead of fmra in reverse engineering a few of these glyphs to be somewhat pictographic, please pay no attention to my child-like artistic inabilities.



myong /mjo:N/ - n. a large feline, tiger lion�etc

As you can see, each radical spot is used, top left: M, bottom left: YA, top right: O, bottom right: NG. In this glyph the O modifies the YA and makes it YO.


A possible handwritten version of myong, but keep in mind, these glyphs would rarely ever be handwritten.



guja /gu:Za:/ - n. water, stream, creek

In the above you see an example of a disyllabic glyph. Disyllabic glyphs only occur when the second syllable is one of the following nuclei: a, o, ja, ha, ya, la, ra. There are occasions when these are modifying the preceding nucleus and not acting as second syllables and the occurrences are based on phonotactic rules. E.g. ya-a is /ja:.a:/, but ya-o is /jo:/.



n�ha /n@?.h\a:/ - n. a cut, gash, slash v. to cut, hack, slice

In this sample you see that only two radical positions are used, this is perfectly acceptable. They are variable to give way to more �pictographic� possibilities.



toj /to:Z/ - n. warrior, fighter, combatant

This sample shows how the secondary nucleus position can be used without the first, the glyph remains readable.



Another example of a handwritten glyph, toj.

A longer sample:


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